Hoping for real data or official answer re: "Mighty (class)" trait

Comments

10 comments

  • Avatar
    WB Gamer

    Agreed, Monlith should have done a much better job explaining such things and provide proper, clear explanations / definitions: which allies are affected (and which are not); what increased/reduced effects percentage are in play for 'master/warder' traits;  range of these effects; which Captain traits could be passed on to these Elite gangs,  etc etc etc.   They could have added this to the in-game Guide or their Wiki page and give examples. As it stands now it's all rather ambiguous / clouded.  

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer

    Agreed re: the Elite Gang trait not affecting anything but the Captain's gang.  But yes, a ranged-immune captain with the Elite Gang trait can get a gang that's ranged-immune as well.  I know from painful early experience trying to take down a berserker with an Elite Gang of savages that were all imune to arrows :P  I immediately recruited him and assigned him as a bodyguard.  Learned that bodyguards don't summon their elite gangs, bah. lol  Anyway, I've run into it a few times since.

     

    Not agreed re: the Mighty X trait, though.  You can give "Mighty Defenders" (as an example) to a captain that doesn't have a gang at all, or has a gang of hunters.  In either case, the follower doesn't get a gang of defenderes  just because you gave them the "Mighty Defender" epic trait.   Either on the stat page, or in pit fights, or going on missions. That happens with the Elite Gang trait, not "Mighty x" trait.   It also won't replace caragors.  That's one of the reasons I'm not sure it applies only togangs or grunts generally... it's totally independent of whether the captain has a gang at all, including caragors:

     

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622345130/D86F0A737F1132350BBA9A93E54E41B3DD366D60/

     

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622453155/50648B6760308CE5C21A658EDBE9706BF048008C/

     

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622385659/D521E7185099B635579C33AF7C24DC6A883CDAFE/

     

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622391295/E8AA19342ED7A160BC7CFA2D4B1B96D6A993BC3F/

     

     

     

    The "allied" is what creates the ambiguity, along with the fact that the captain doesn't have to have a gang of type "x" to have the trait.  Just going by the language, it would apply to all allied Uruks of that base class.  The only way to test it I think is screwing with my own followers trainings and invading friendly forst repeatedly to see if there is any difference.  I'm lazy and was hoping someone else had done it, or someone had some authoritative source for it :P

     

    As a side note, once you assign the Elite Gang trait to a captain, you can assign that captain different types of gangs, and the "Epic Gang" will reflect accordingly:

     

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622367928/A9A6FE88922A09540BCABA223361377282E86763/

     

    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622373771/A712B1AD9A1B3E93E2CE4C2FB1E895DB1719796A/

     

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer

    Agreed re: the Elite Gang only applying to that captain's gang. But yes, a ranged-immune captain with an Elite Gang can have ranged-immune followers. I know from painful early exeprience trying to take down an arrrow-immune berserker with an Elite Gang of savages who were all arrow immune as well :P Have run into it a few times since.

    Not agreed re: the "Mighty X" trait though.  You bring up one of the reasons I'm not so sure that it only applies to grunts.  You can assign "Mighty Hunters" (as an example) to a captain who has a gang of savages, or no gang at all, and they don't suddenly get a gang of hunters, either in their stat page, or in online pit fights, or going on missions:


    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622345130/D86F0A737F1132350BBA9A93E54E41B3DD366D60/


    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622453155/50648B6760308CE5C21A658EDBE9706BF048008C/

     

    and it won't replace Caragors:


    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622385659/D521E7185099B635579C33AF7C24DC6A883CDAFE/


    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622391295/E8AA19342ED7A160BC7CFA2D4B1B96D6A993BC3F/

    The "allied" is what creates the ambiguity, especially combined witht he fact that it's totally independent of whether or not the captain has a gang at all, or what kind of gang the captain has. Going by the language alone, it would seem to apply to any allied Uruk with that base class. The only way I can think of testing it is to change up my own follower's training orders and do multiple friendly sieges to see if there is a noticeable affect. I'm too lazy for that, why I was hoping for actual data or an authoritative source :P

    As a side note, once the "Elite Recruitment" TO is assigned, you can change what gang the captain has by applying a training order for that gang, and the Elite Gang will reflect the change:


    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622367928/A9A6FE88922A09540BCABA223361377282E86763/


    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/910168071622373771/A712B1AD9A1B3E93E2CE4C2FB1E895DB1719796A/

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer

    Trying to post this for the third time, but the moderators apparently don't like it. Trying it with the links showing what I was talking about removed.

    Agreed re: the Elite Gang only applying to that captain's gang. But yes, a ranged-immune captain with an Elite Gang can have ranged-immune followers. I know from painful early exeprience trying to take down an arrrow-immune berserker with an Elite Gang of savages who were all arrow immune as well :P Have run into it a few times since.

    Not agreed re: the "Mighty X" trait though. You bring up one of the reasons I'm not so sure that it only applies to grunts. You can assign "Mighty Hunters" (as an example) to a captain who has a gang of savages, or no gang at all, and they don't suddenly get a gang of hunters, either in their stat page, or in online pit fights, or going on missions. That's not the way the TO works. And it won't replace Caragors.

    The "allied" is what creates the ambiguity, especially combined witht he fact that it's totally independent of whether or not the captain has a gang at all, or what kind of gang the captain has. Going by the language alone, it would seem to apply to any allied Uruk with that base class. The only way I can think of testing it is to change up my own follower's training orders and do multiple friendly sieges to see if there is a noticeable affect. I'm too lazy for that, why I was hoping for actual data or an authoritative source :P

    As a side note, once the "Elite Recruitment" TO is assigned, you can change what gang the captain has by applying a training order for that gang, and the Elite Gang will reflect the change.

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer

    Sorry yes, you are correct and I was wrong about the Mighty X replacing whatever gang it is you have (assuming you have one).    I've been at this a long time, and the way I manage all such gangs is that if an Epic (or Legendary) Captain has such a trait and their X grunts do not exist OR they don't match the TO, I change their Grunt Class to match it OR swap out their Epic Trait to something more powerful.    Currently, and over the last 3 months of playing,  almost every Captain I apply TO's to are Common - having recuited them from Fight Pits.  So they are relatively a clean slate, and I apply a Gang first then the TO to compliment their strength or counter their weakness.    And yes the Might X trait can exist on Beastmaster Captains and they can still retain Caragor Pack.  Personally I never combine BM's with this trait, or any 'Gang' related trait.    

     

    As for arrow-proof grunts, as mentioned I've never run into that, and I've been playing now closing in on 1500 hours.  Has this happened to you recently or only way back when the game was released prior to the first (or 2nd) patch?   Perhaps they got rid of it or I just have not run into it yet.

     

    Yes you can change the Gang and the Elite Gang TO will reflect that change.  I do it fairly frequently on decent Legendary Captains where that trait can't be swapped out with a better one, and their Gang is Warriors or a similar weaker class, bumping them up to Hunters or Defenders or Ologs, depending on Captain's traits, his Advanced Class and Class.   

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer
    Ran into the arrow proof thing recently, in a situation that’s reproducible. If you have anyone on your friends list with Akoth as an Overlord, invade them. The gang that shows up right as the fight starts (I.e. not the grunts and ploys there at the start of the dialogue) is his elite gang. Those grunts were arrow proof. At least they always are when I invade my friends fort with him as an overlord.
    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer
    Ploys=ologs weird choice for my iPhone to choose for autocorrect lol
    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer
    Not letting me edit the original so adding this... I actually like epic caragor packs for my beastmasters, only because I like their look, not because they’re terribly effective. Maybe as crowd control when assaulting... anyway, so yeah, other than using “Elite recruitment” to turn a bm’s Caragor pack into epic caragors, agreed, I never use the gang stuff with them
    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer

    I'll be on the lookout for any such Epic/Legendary arrow-proof Captain so equipped with the Elite Gang.    One thing that could hinder my ability to identify/notice this trait if/when it applies to their Gang is I use a Hammer with the Fire Explosion 99% of the time in open world and Online Sieges/Vendettas, so arrow-proofness is really not even an issue.   Their life expectancy is also a factor, as these Gang-grunts have a second or so life span regardless of their traits, so they die real fast.   

     

    Setting up scenarios testing these and other traits via attacking your own Forts is not just a matter of being lazy.  It also has a big risk of upsetting the balance/screwing up your current Defensive Fort setup by initiating Betrayals, Rebellions, nerfing your Warlords by demotion where they inherit the Hysterial/Weak Master traits, etc - all from trying to put in place specific Captains whos trait(s) you want to test.    This involves swapping positions, perhaps moving guys up to Garrison for balance purposes, etc - all these are risky moves that come with drawbacks.  So to that extent it's just not worth it.   Safest way is to look for such Captains is via Fight Pits, but then you're wasting a gack and there's still no guarantee that test will prove anyting.   Online Sieges is another opportunity of course, get targetted Captains one/one using various methods to get them alone - but even then you run into the other issues such as life expectancy and timing, etc.  In Vendettas you can do the same thing, but it's much more random - besides the Vendetta Captain target himself you have no idea who you will face, if anyone else, once in their world.  At least in Sieges you can identify 7, including the Overlord, and once started you can identify their Bodyguards (if any) and their traits immediately, and single one out via highliting them.   But Monolith should have simply provided more concise, detailed explanations on how these traits, most notably those discussed here, are applied, what is/is not affected/in play and what range defines 'nearby'.  

    0
    Comment actions Permalink
  • Avatar
    WB Gamer
    I used the war monger hammer for ages., know what you mean. Agreed 100% on the above. I posted this thread 1/2 hoping one of the monolith people would clarify.
    0
    Comment actions Permalink

Please sign in to leave a comment.